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The topic is Heaven First, Earth Second.  This is a fascinating walk through parts of the old and new testaments as I share a pattern most people miss … and which I believe have great application for us as believers.  In a single sentence it’s this:  everything God does on earth was first already done in heaven before it was manifested on earth.

Understanding this pattern will have tremendous impact as you live out your Christian life and step out by “radical” faith in serving the Lord.

Transcription (was completed by automated process.  Please ignore any speech-to-text errors)

[00:00:01] Well Beatty, I’m so excited to be on the phone with me again today, and I just want say welcome to everyone who was listening to this session, I guess I was calling you with Beatty Carmichael.   Beatty is the CEO of master grabber and the creator of Dominator, one of the top marketing expert in the real estate field. And always a privilege and an honor, to be honest with you, Beatty. I’m excited that we’re going to be talking about today.

[00:00:26] Yes. And just as a quick reminder for those listening in, today is not one of the days we’ll be talking about real estate. Today is when the days we’re gonna be talking about walking with the Lord.

[00:00:39] It’s what we call radical faith. So feel free if that’s not an interest of yours to turn off this podcast and come back for the next one. But I have a really exciting topic I want to talk on today. The general topic headline is Heaven first or second for Penny. This is it’s really significant. It’s been almost once a earth-shattering, but that may be too glorious of a description in terms of of what we’re going to talk about and what it’s done for me. But I’m hoping we can get it in one session. We may have to break it into two depending on how the discussion goes, but it’s really cool. So are you ready?

[00:01:28] I am. I’m ready.

[00:01:29] Ok, great. Also, let me just make a real quick statement for everyone listening. There is a foundational set of training for the radical faith teaching and you’ll find it earlier on. And it’s listed as what is faith and getting out of the boat, OK. And if you haven’t listened to those two sections, there is a series of trainings on those. Let me encourage you to go back and listen to those as soon as you can, because everything we talk about in radical faith hinges off of that foundation. OK.

[00:02:05] So that’s really those are the foundational sessions on really understanding and applying a lot of what I’m going to be talking about moving forward.

[00:02:17] So I want to turn real quickly to Ephesians Ephesians Chapter 2. Penny, OK.

[00:02:24] And I want you to read real quickly in just a moment, we’re going to reverse this four, five and six. But I want to set the stage of what’s going to go on. And so you kind of know where we’re headed on this. I was reading this one day and this is one of those passages that always confuses a lot of people because they talked in past tense. Something that we haven’t received yet. And the question is, what’s going on? And I want to establish right up front that there is not a linear connection in time between heaven and earth. And so when we read the scriptures and we read the truths of God’s word, we have to realize that our concept of time does not apply in heaven. And therefore, that’s going to be part of the disconnect. But the disconnect also creates some really neat opportunities on how we walk by faith and how we see God work in our lives.

[00:03:19] So with that said, let me let you take it from there. Invasion’s 2 versus 4, 5 and 6.

[00:03:28] But God is so rich in mercy. And he loved us so much that even though we were dead because of our sin, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved, for he raised us from the dead, along with Christ, and seeded us with him in the heavenly realms, because we are united with Christ Jesus.

[00:03:54] Ok. So here is really something amazing.

[00:03:58] It says that we in my translation and raised us up with them and seated us with them in the heavenly places, and it so raised up and seeded us. Is that past, present terms for future tense.

[00:04:22] Rail. Yeah. Here.

[00:04:27] Well, so here’s the key in some mysterious way. We are already seated with Christ in the heavenly room, even though we’re still here in the earthly room, because that makes sense.

[00:04:42] Okay, so this serves to shed light on where this currently. Okay. We’re talking on a recent session. The conflict between walking by faith and hope. Ah, I see. And that faith. We walk by faith and not by sight. And there is always this conflict. And part of the conflicts, it also extends into this this understanding that we’ve we’ve been crucified with Christ. Past tense. We’ve been raised with him. Past tense. And we’ve been seated with him in the heavenly places. Past tense. That means we’re actually sitting on the throne where Christ rules. That’s what this is talking about. It says right before this.

[00:05:25] He says that the Lord raised Jesus up and seated him above all all rules and powers and authorities and dimensions above everything.

[00:05:35] And then here it says that we’ve been seeded with Christ in those having places. And yet we’re still here on Earth. What’s going on?

[00:05:44] So I want to suggest that a lot of things are done first in heaven before they’re done on earth. This gives us a glimpse of how things have already been done in heaven before we actually see them manifest in the physical or in some way in our lives. And so with that, I want to go to another passage. We’re gonna hit a lot of passages today and I won’t try to tie some things together. So go with me to Matthew, 16, verse 19. This is one of those passages that’s been really difficult to understand. And I want to give you possible understanding of some of what this might mean.

[00:06:29] Matthew, 16 19. When you’re reading.

[00:06:33] Take it away first. Hold, hold on. Before you take it away. Let me give you the background. OK. So just think is in season refill API and Jesus is walking along with the disciples and he says, who did people say that I am? And someone says that you’re a prophet, that you’re a man of God and all these things. And then Jesus says, Who do you say that I am? And Peter says, You are the Christ. You’re the Messiah. Okay. And and then and then that brings us now into this passage. Matthew, 16, 19. So go ahead.

[00:07:12] All right. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you forbad on earth will be forbidden in heaven. And whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.

[00:07:24] Yeah, that sounds kind of difficult to understand. That means that. Is he talking to Peter only? Or is he talking disciples or he’s talking to all believers? Jesus says you’re Peter. And on this rock on this rock of understanding that I am the Christ, then. Then he makes a statement. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Keys represents authority. Okay. So what he’s talking about is I will give you the authority of heaven. And in that, a story of heaven, it says that you can bind on earth and there’ll be bound in heaven and loose on earth and you’ll be loose in heaven. That’s why most translations read this. What does that mean? Does that mean we have some supernatural authority to.

[00:08:16] Dictate what happens on Earth.

[00:08:22] Well, I think if I’m thinking about the scripture, we just read any feagin. If I’m seated with Christ. Then I have the same authority he has. As far as whatever I choose to bind on the IRS’s. If I’m actually seated with him, he’s through me going to make that happen.

[00:08:46] Yes, I think you’re moving the right direction. There’s gonna be a. I won’t use the term gradient. Okay. Right. As all authority. But we don’t always operate in all authority because of our flesh. Does that make sense?

[00:09:01] Yeah. OK.

[00:09:03] So so there are some gradients there. But I want to go into this passage has a little bit clearer. OK. If I were to read this passage from the new American standard Bible, it says Whatever you bind on earth shall have already been bound in heaven.

[00:09:26] And whatever you loose on earth shall have already been loosed in heaven, in other words, the the actual translation of the Greek words. I’m not a Greek scholar, but this is what the translate strong concordance and some other things have shared that the actual translation is the only things we’re able to bind or loose on earth have are those things that have previously been bound or loosed in heaven. So we’re able to the kids have having means that we have the authority to then bind on earth what’s already been previously bound by God in his sovereign will in heaven. And we’re able to loose on earth those things that have already been by God in his sovereign real loosed and in heaven. Does that make sense?

[00:10:14] Yeah. Okay. So we’re not able just to say I want this and I’m going to bind it or lose it.

[00:10:20] It’s only under the authority and under the headship. The lordship and the will of God, the father, he’s already done it in heaven. So that’s kind of really what this is. But here’s the interesting thing. We’re only able to. In fact, on earth. What has already been infected in heaven? Does that make sense?

[00:10:43] Well, OK, so now we come into the first of the understanding here of heaven first, earth second. We’ve been seeded with Christ in the heavenly places already, heaven first. But yet it’s not really yet here on Earth. Okay.

[00:11:03] But it says in Matthew here, Matthew 16, that we can lose and on earth or bind on Earth, whatever has been loosed or bound in heaven already, heaven first or second. So now let’s with that understanding, I want to now go through some other passages and show you how this starts to really play a part. Go to John 5. First 19. OK, pay. John Five. First 19 and the real quick backstory, if I recall this passage correctly, Ferris’s have asked Jesus, you know, how do you do this? Whose authority? What do you do? And then Jesus responds and you can read it.

[00:11:52] All right. Verse 19 said, Jesus explained. I tell you the truth. The sun can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the father doing, whatever the father does. The son also does.

[00:12:08] Whatever the father does, the son does. The son only does what he sees the father doing. So does that mean that when Jesus healed a blind man, the blind man had already been healed by his father in heaven?

[00:12:24] Yes.

[00:12:25] Does that mean when Jesus turned the water to wine at the wedding that the father had already turned it to wine in heaven?

[00:12:36] Does that mean when Jesus called Lazarus from the dead and raised him from the dead, that Lazarus had already been raised from the dead in heaven?

[00:12:47] So we see this pattern heaven first or second.

[00:12:51] We see Matthew, 16, being lived out by Jesus, who has full authority. He looses on earth what’s been loosed and have any any binds on earth, what’s been found in heaven.

[00:13:04] He only does what he sees his father having already done this making sense. What?

[00:13:12] Okay. So now let’s go to Matthew 6. And we’re going to do Matthew 6 versus 9 and 10. This is real interesting because the disciples come to him. You know, John the Baptist had taught his disciples how to pray. And Jesus, his disciples say, we don’t want to be left out. Oh, my dear teacher, teach us how to pray. Okay. So that’s kind of.

[00:13:36] So then Jesus teaches his disciples how to pray. Matthew, 6 versus 9 10. Tell me what it reads.

[00:13:44] Pray like. Our father in heaven. May your name be kept holy. May your kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

[00:13:58] So where to pray for a God’s will to be done? Where?

[00:14:04] On Earth as it is in heaven.

[00:14:07] So we’re praying for his world that’s already been done in heaven. To now be made manifest on earth. Right. Yeah. That’s right. That’s just what Jesus did. Was it Jesus? Was it the Lord’s will that the blind man had his eyes open? Yes.

[00:14:25] And so while Jesus did is he brought to Earth God’s will that was already in heaven and God’s will that Lazarus be raised from the dead. So all Jesus did is he brought to Earth what was already God’s will in heaven. And now Jesus is telling us when you pray.

[00:14:50] Here to pray, Lord, may your will be done on earth. As it is already done in heaven. So we see again this pattern of heaven first or second. Pretty cool, isn’t it?

[00:15:08] But we’re not finished yet.

[00:15:11] So now let’s turn to Marcie Levin. First 24, Marcie, 24. And so this is another teaching moment where Jesus teaches his disciples something we actually spoke about this passage a time or two ago on our radical faith calls. Read it again. I will make some comments on it.

[00:15:36] I tell you, you can pray for anything. And if you believe that you’ve received it, it will be yours.

[00:15:45] You can pray for anything and if you believe that you have received it.

[00:15:50] Past tense, present tense or future tense?

[00:15:55] All right, you believe that you have received it in the past.

[00:16:00] Then it will be years past tense, present tense or future tense here, future.

[00:16:06] So we have past and future altogether. There’s a conflict there, right?

[00:16:15] In our natural line, yes, in our natural mine, the conflict is again, we start to understand there seems to be a time disconnect between the heavenly realm in the earthly room, because in this passage, Jesus is telling us that we’re to believe that we have received it.

[00:16:37] Now add the words in the heavenly room and then we will receive it. It will be ours. In the earthly realm.

[00:16:49] Because essentially, that’s what Jesus is saying. You believe that you’ve already received. You believed that my father has already given it to you. My father lives in heaven, so it’s already been given to you in the heavenly realm. And then you will read. Then it will be years physically in the earthly realm.

[00:17:07] Heaven first. Earth second.

[00:17:12] Does this start to help with understanding what faith is, faith is the assurance of things, hope for the conviction of things not seen. How can you have a conviction of things not seen?

[00:17:23] Because by faith we understand and believe it’s already been done for us in heaven. And then we’re going to pray that God’s will be done on earth as it has already been done in heaven. And that’s how we receive it.

[00:17:40] Pretty eye opening in it. Yeah.

[00:17:43] Okay, but we’re not done. Let’s go back coefficients to verse 10. So let’s look a little bit more about how, again, how God works in the heavenly realm.

[00:17:57] All right. So for we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us a new in Christ Jesus so we can do the good things he has planned for us long ago so we can do the good things he has planned for us long ago.

[00:18:15] Let me read it in a different translation. Let me pull up a different translation one moment and then read it in the E.S.P. And this is a patient’s to 10. Because this clarifies it a little bit more for where his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand.

[00:18:44] That we should walk in them. In other words, the good works that we walk in. Have already been prepared beforehand. OK. Before we ever walk in them. Does that make sense? Well, no.

[00:19:04] So here’s this. You probably won’t remember this, but some of you listening to this who are old enough to remember the Jetsons Karmichael cartoon.

[00:19:17] Yet do you remember it? Okay. You remember the beginning of the Jetsons. Everything’s automated and there is a data stand there and the set of the suit of clothes comes on them and they just kind of walk right into that suit of clothes. And now they’re fully dressed. Remember that every time I read this passage, that guy prepared these good works beforehand that you might walk in them. In other words, we’re walking down the road down our path of life, and all of a sudden we walk into the good works that have already been prepared and waiting for us to get there.

[00:19:57] That’s what this is talking about. Those good works have already been done in heaven first before they get done in here on earth. And then they happen on earth, heaven first, earth second. Okay. Yeah.

[00:20:16] So now let’s look at another one. Okay.

[00:20:19] Because what you’re going to see is this is throughout scripture. Old Testament, New Testament. Once you have your eyes open to it, then you go, huh? Here’s one those here’s that one that’s sacred to the kingdom. I never caught. But now I’m understanding. I see it everywhere I go. And now I can live in it. And now I understand more of what’s going on, because all this is how do you walk by faith? How do you live by faith? You got to understand more. So the more you understand, the more you can you can do it well. So we’re going to now turn to Hebrews for. Versus 3 3/4.

[00:21:04] All right. He was 4, 3, 3, 4, 4 only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said in my anger, I took an oath. They will never enter my place of rest, even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the scripture where it mentions the seventh day, and on the seventh day God rested from all his work.

[00:21:36] Let me share something. As we move into this, because I’ll give you the background, an interesting understanding. So right now, this is talking about the time of Exodus.

[00:21:49] The twelve spies were sent into the light land, into the promised land. They came back. Joshua and Caleb said, it’s great and we can take it because God is with us. The other 10 said on, my gosh, they’re giants in the land and we can’t conquer it. We’re like grasshoppers in their eyes. And they got all the visual to be afraid. And so God gets upset and says, I swear that you will not enter into my rest, OK? So that’s where this passage is coming from. What’s real interesting is if you read the Old Testament, it is a metaphore of our Christian life.

[00:22:30] We were once in bondage in slavery. We’ve been set free baptism through the water.

[00:22:38] We then go through a period of wilderness where we learn to trust the Lord without being able to see trust him for our daily bread, our daily sustenance manna. It dissolved at the end of it, you know, by the end of the day. So you use it now, but you can’t store it. So you have to always trust him every step of the way. And then you move into the promised land. And the transition from the wilderness to the promised land is a time of great turbulence and additional trial as you punch your way into God’s promised blessing. And when you get there, you’re in a land of rest in peace, restoring back what the first atom lost that now the second atom gives us, which is in the first ad and before the fall, before he lost what was originally his, he lived and walked in Eden, and it produced abundant fruit with very little effort. Once he fell and lost that, then he had to toil in slave, and worked by the sweat of his brow just to get sustenance to survive. So as we move into this promised land, God calls and talks about it as his rest. And just as he rested from his work. So can we rest from ours? And this isn’t simply saying you go to heaven and you rest. This is the Christian life that when we we go from slavery through baptism, through the welna’s, into these these last periods of 10 more intense trials of fighting into the promised land. Now we enter his rest where what happens to us is all God’s beautiful, wonderful will full in this of life. Now, in this life and fullness of life later in the afterlife, does that make sense, as is the whole metaphor?

[00:24:30] And so so what this is talking about. Reading it from I think this is a new American standard for we who have believed. Enter that rest. Okay. There is a key word. Believe we’ll talk about it. As he said, as I swore my wrath. You shall not enter my rest. Although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. So this is now saying God’s works were finished from the foundation of the world. Have you ever seen God work in your life, Penny? Work was done before the foundation of the world because God finished all of his work before the foundation of the world. Who do you think is going to be working in your life in the next year? Oh, hell yeah. Those works have already been finished because it says that his works were finished from the foundation of the world. And it says, and God rested on the seventh day from all of his works. If he rested from all his works, how many works did he not accomplish?

[00:25:43] Zero. Is he still working today?

[00:25:49] Yes. And yet those works have already been accomplished. Does that make sense?

[00:25:54] Yes, it does. OK. Kind of mind boggling in it. All right.

[00:26:03] Don’t you love getting paid to come on these calls? Love it.

[00:26:09] So what this means is that the works that God did in the day of Moses in leading Israel out of Egypt through the wilderness and into the promised land had already been done long before. At the foundation of the world. What this also means is the word that God did through Jesus 2000 years ago. All these mighty signs and wonders and miracles.

[00:26:40] Had all been finished before the foundation of the world. That means that they were done in heaven first. Before they were manifested on Earth. And we come back to the same conclusion, heaven first or second.

[00:27:00] Right. Yeah.

[00:27:04] We’re not done yet. I want to show you how this continues throughout. In a few more passages. Let’s go back to Genesis, back to where it all started. Not while, not where it all started, but shortly after it all started. Genesis 17, verse 5. This is God speaking to.

[00:27:26] Ok. OK, go ahead.

[00:27:29] All right. What’s more, I am changing your name. It will no longer be a broom. Instead, you will be called Abraham, for you will be the father of many nations.

[00:27:44] Did at that moment when a broom was changed to Abraham.

[00:27:51] So this is the promise you’re gonna be the father of many nations. And we know from Hebrews that the promise came through Isaac, not through Ishmael. Okay. And so this is a promise and a spiritual promise with spiritual blessing. So at the time that God changed his name.

[00:28:12] Had did Abraham have any children of the promise? No, no.

[00:28:19] But yet he said, I will call you Abraham, the father of a multitude of nations.

[00:28:28] Past tense, present or future tense?

[00:28:33] Who you will be called Peter.

[00:28:36] You. He’s changing his name because you are. I. Here’s my translation. I have made you the father of a multitude of translation of nation. So my translation, New American Standard and in ESV are more very specific exactly what the word means. I think your translation may loosen up a little bit to try to make it read easier, but the more specific translation of the words being used. I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.

[00:29:11] Okay. And then he said, I’m gonna change your name from Abraham to Abraham in order to confirm. So at this point, Abraham had no children of the promise that yet God had said, I have already made you. The father of a multitude of nations, because in the heavenly realm, it had already been done.

[00:29:37] It just hadn’t manifested into the earthly room. But we see this again, heaven first for a second to more passages. I know I’m probably I’m not trying to kill this, you know, kick a dead horse. But I just want to show you how complete throughout scripture, all these things that we read about when we read it with this and this understanding, it now all starts to come to mind. So let me ask you a question. When was this crucified? When was the lamb slain?

[00:30:09] Beginning to bang around a B? I mean, I’m sorry. Prior to his death. And then we’re.

[00:30:21] Well, he was 30 ish when he was crucified, 33 oh, 31, yes, street.

[00:30:29] Then it would have been probably around that same time.

[00:30:31] Okay, so let’s go to a question.

[00:30:37] There are two answers and they’re both completely accurate. Let’s see if it depends on whether you look for a man’s perspective from Earth or a guy’s perspective from heaven. And this is the new challenge in walking by faith. We typically look from man’s perspective from earth, and we come up with one answer. That’s absolutely true. But when we look from God’s perspective, from heaven, we come up with a completely different answer. That’s absolutely true. The question is, which true answer?

[00:31:06] Has overriding power over the other. Okay, so let’s turn to because we’re going to talk about that statement in just moments. Revelation 13, verse eight. Tell me what it reads.

[00:31:20] Chapter 13 verse. Yes. OK. 13 verse 8 says.

[00:31:28] And all the people who belong to this world worship the beast. They are the one whose names were not written the book of life that belongs to the land who was slaughtered before the world was made.

[00:31:41] When was the lamb slaughtered?

[00:31:44] Before the world was made.

[00:31:45] So it was not only two thousand years ago?

[00:31:49] No.

[00:31:52] So we see it again. The land was slaughtered before the world was made in the heavenly room. But then that slaughter was made manifest in the earthly realm. About 2000 years ago, one.

[00:32:08] Haνen’t first. Our second name pattern now there is another pattern I want to show you, same pattern, but a little bit deeper and understanding this so revelation, just to give you an idea, revelation is when John goes to heaven and he physically sees everything he writes about. It’s not metaphorically speaking, it’s not using, you know, very colorful language to just to kind of be poetic. John sees in the spirit and then tries to interpret what he sees in the physical love. I was reading a book and this guy is a seer. He sees in the spirit room a lot and he makes a great statement. He says, when you see in the spirit realm, like demons or angels or things like that, it is a physical representives representation of a spiritual reality. What he’s trying to say is. It doesn’t. It’s not. It’s not an equal translation because spiritual realities have no real physical boundaries like we do. And so when you see in the in the spiritual, it’s a physical reality. It’s a physical representation. So their eyes can kind of translate and understand it of a spiritual reality. So when he’s writing the book of Revelation, we come up with all these things that we try to understand. And yet it’s it’s all true. It’s exactly what he saw. It’s not colorful language is exactly what he sees. And with that, I want you to now go to Revelation Six. We’re going to read a series of versus one through eight. Revelation 6 1 3 8. And then I’m going to share what all this means.

[00:34:00] Okay. All right.

[00:34:02] As I watched the Lambreaux, the first of the seven seals on the squirrel, then I heard one of the four living beings say with a loud voice like thunder come. I looked up and saw a white horse standing there. Its rider carried a bow and the crown was placed on his head. He rode out to win many battles and gain the victory. When the land broke the second seal, I heard the second live in beings say come. Then another horse appeared. A red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword, and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere. When the land broke the third seal. I heard the third living beings say, come. I looked up and saw a black horse, and its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice coming from among the four living beings saying a loaf of wheat bread or three loaves of barley will cost a day’s pay. And don’t waste the olive oil in the wine. When the lamb broke the fourth seal. I heard the fourth living beings say, come. I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named death, and his companion was the Grays. These two were given a Scarlatti over one fourth of the earth to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.

[00:35:31] Pretty dramatic, innit?

[00:35:33] Yeah.

[00:35:36] Prophecy of what’s happening in the what’s going to happen in the end times.

[00:35:44] I think that question could be answered a lot of different ways, depending on your personal belief.

[00:35:50] Right. When John wrote about it, had those events already happened?

[00:36:01] It was happening as he was watching it.

[00:36:03] It was happening as he was watching it in heaven. They had manifested on earth, right? Right. OK, so here’s the cool thing about this. He’s in heaven.

[00:36:16] He sees all of these events past. And future events happening and occurring. All right there in front of his eyes, but yet they had not all occurred on Earth. He sees it all happening, but it hasn’t yet happened on Earth. Regardless of your eschatology. In terms of whether this passage is about the end times or something that’s already occurred at the time he wrote about it. It had not occurred yet.

[00:36:51] And so what we see is even in these very dramatic things that only the land could break the scrote, the break the seals on that scroll.

[00:37:01] These are events. They had already occurred in heaven. By the time John wrote about it, but they had not occurred yet on earth. So we see the same pattern. Earth first. Excuse me. Heaven first or second. And so what this all these passages seem to indicate is that there’s this time disconnect between the heavenly room and the earthly room. How can you pray believing you’ve received something and yet you still don’t have it? How can you pray by faith that the Lord is going to save one of your loved ones when you don’t see it? How can you pray all these things that we walk by faith, not by sight. And so what this show shows is things happen, that things that happen in the physical seem to be a reflection and a manifestation of things that have already happened in the spiritual. Not always 100 percent, but all good things that occur have already occurred in a heavenly room because the Bible says that all good things are from the Lord and says that the Lord has done all of his work and has rested and he’s prepared beforehand. All the good works that we should walk in them beforehand. So everything that occurs here in our life that’s good from the Lord has already been previously provided and has already occurred.

[00:38:37] When I go out and pray, or you go on and pray for people to be healed and God heals them, they were already healed in heaven first. So what’s the implication? I think the implication on this is really significant. Almost tempted to break right now and say we’re gonna have to cover the rest in another session. This be a break, but we’ll go a little bit longer and then we’ll cover the rest of the other sessions. So this, you know, like the end of the chapter or the end of the chapter, I’ll always leave you hanging. You want to go to the next chapter of a book? Well, let me wrap up this section and then we’ll cover the rest on another session. But I think the implication with this is significant, because the only way we. You know, the Romans, they talked about the mindset on the flesh this and in death. But the mindset on the spirit is life and peace. We know that we are spirit and body. We operate in the spirit room. But we also operate in the physical realm. This is how this time does connect.

[00:39:54] Is how when we started this whole talk, it was decisions, too, that we have been raised and been seated already raised with Crites, seated with him in the heavenly places, because that’s in the spirit. But in the physical, we’re still on earth in a in a fleshly body, so we receive things of the spirit by spirit and we receive things so the physical by flesh. This is what John was to Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about in John Three. He says there are only things of the spirit. Can receive the spiritual things that you only know you have to be born of flesh, flesh and spirit, those things are blood and spirit. I forget exactly. But he says those things to the flesh or fleshly. But only those things are the spirit. You had to be born again in the spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven, because the kingdom of heaven is a spiritual place. And so this is talking and shows that our flesh exists in the earthly realm. But our spirit exists in the heavenly realm. In the spiritual realm. And so when we live. In the spirit, by the spirit, we’re living from the heavenly realm. Does that connection make sense so far?

[00:41:18] Yeah.

[00:41:19] Okay. When we’re living. In the spirit, by the spirit, mind folk, the mind focus on the spirit. Then we’re living from the heavenly realm. From God’s perspective of what had already been accomplished. We’re talking earlier about gradients. Okay, I want introduce the concept, the gradient. We’re seeded with Christ. Far above all other rural power, dominion and authority. And we’re not talking only about Dominick Dunne demonic rule, demonic power and authority in Dominion, but the entire hierarchy of the spiritual realm is governed by layers of leadership and and rulers and powers and dominions and authorities first and the angelic room. And then I believe the demonic realm just copied it. So what this is saying is above everything. That’s where Jesus sits on the throne of God. And we sit there already in him spiritually. As sons of God who are co-workers with Christ, and therefore he calls us brothers. Whether you’re female or male on Earth, spiritually, we’re all sons and therefore we’re all called brothers by Jesus. But yet we don’t have the same level of authority that Jesus does. When Jesus walked on Earth, he fully represented. And I’ll use the word transmitted God’s will from heaven to earth without any restriction. We operate operating gradients and that’s why. Even though we said in the spiritual realm, in the same saint where Jesus said when we try to lose on earth or bind on Earth, those things that have already been loosed are bound in heaven. The translation doesn’t always come through making sense.

[00:43:29] But at least understanding this helps us to understand. Knowing what this passage means, but a little bit more the power that the spiritual realm has over the physical realm. And when we understand the power that the physical room, the spiritual room has over the physical room, then that leads us into a greater understanding that we have. An authority in our relationship with Christ and our ability to tap into the spiritual realm. To influence the physical realm, the realm where we live now. We were not able to change what happens in the physical outside of God’s will. But the more we live by the spirit, operate from the spirit in the heavenly room, from God’s perspective, then the more we’re able to affect on Earth the will of God that has already been effected in heaven. We were talking recently. Remember the discussion we had any where we’re talking about walking by faith. You come to a a junction in your life and I think we’re talking about this as part of the timeline. OK. You’re using like a clear garden hose as an example. We come to a junction and we can either take the path in a natural or path by the spiritual. We call their path by side or path by faith. You remember that one.

[00:44:59] Ok. So what this you know, to tie in these concepts together.

[00:45:03] God has his highest will for any purpose for us, already created in heaven. But it’s only when we live by faith in the spirit, from God’s perspective, that those things get manifested from heaven to earth. If we operate, the more we operate by flesh and less by spirit, the more those things are already in heaven. Do not get manifested on earth. That’s what we call those natural consequences that we talked about when we walk by sight rather than by faith. That’s kind of bringing it together all okay. So if we want to. Have our life conformed to the will of God. If we want God’s will to be manifested more fully in our life than it is, then it’s walking by faith. With our mindset on the spirit, seeing things from God’s perspective, from the heavenly realm. Rather than from our natural perspective, in the physical realm. And with that, then we influence the outcome. This is kind of what we talked about with Peter. And I think let me cover a couple more thoughts and then. We’ll stop and we’ll pick up a new session and finish out this discussion that’s going now into two sessions for sure. So. Our identity. So I want to kind of focus a little bit on identity with Christ, because really this is what this is talking about.

[00:46:46] The more we live in true identity in Christ, the more. All of these heavenly realities, heavenly truths become earthly realities. And our identity in Christ has been one with Christ. But as long as we live in our sin nature bodies, then that identity that we have is only in the spiritual realm and not in the physical realm. That’s why in the spirit, we’ve already been seated there. But we’re not seated there in our physical body. The more we live in the spirit, then the more we operate in that idea and with identity with Christ and a more authority we have over the physical room to manifest God’s will in every situation in our life. This is the ultimate understanding with all of this is the more we live by the spirit, then the more authority we have over the physical room. To manifest God’s will in every situation. Because as the spiritual realm that governs the physical realm. This is the the ultimate understanding where one of the ultimate understandings in all of this haven’t first or second is all these amazing spiritual promises, these signs and wonders. These believe it. And then you’ll receive it.

[00:48:13] All of these things is because the. Spiritual realm. The truths of the spiritual realm override the realities of the physical room and actually causes a change in the physical. Okay, we see this with Peter walking on the water. You know, as long as we walk by faith, he walked on water. As soon as he took his eyes off of faith and saw from his own perspective, not God’s perspective, he sunk. Same situation, two different outcomes. And so, you know, so that’s living by the spirit. The more we live by the flesh, the more we are servant to whatever happens by the natural laws rather than God’s truth. So I think that’s kind of where I want to start to wrap up on this call as we pick up the next session. I want to talk then about the difference between truth and reality, God’s word being truth. What we see, what their eyes being reality and start to talk about, know the real implications of all of this kind of wrapping, this understanding. Now, how did we start to walk by faith in it? Before we wrap up the sessions, do you have any questions or any comments up hard or anything that you’d like to share?

[00:49:31] Gosh, you know, I just was thinking about how since our boys were little, we’ve always tried to teach them that they are more spirit than flesh. And that sounds funny, but that’s just been something that our family has focused on, you know, being more spirit than flesh and knowing that we were created before time that the father knew us intimately. That’s a whole nother conversation. But to say that the father knew us before we even came to the earth and so that this is bringing all of that together for me and just something we taught our kids.

[00:50:07] If bring some meat to that vague understanding that we kind of knew was there. But now we start to see it more clearly.

[00:50:16] Right.

[00:50:17] Well, absolutely. OK. All right.

[00:50:21] Also, we’ll wrap up this call and join us back for the next session of radical faith. And we’ll continue this on part two.

[00:50:31] Sounds great. Thank you so much for your time and your on just the effort that you put into today’s call. This is really good. And I look forward to our next one.

[00:50:40] Me, too. All right.