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[00:00:23] Hey, this is Beatty Carmichael, and before I introduce this podcast session, I need to make a quick correction for you on a previous podcast episode. And on this one, you’ll hear me using the wrong word. I use a word that I call antimony to describe two truths that are appear to be in contradiction to each other. I use the wrong word. Antimony is a chemical. The word I meant to use is antinomy. So when you hear that on this podcast session and then you hear the word antimony, just mentally replace it with antinomy and everything will be cool. Thanks. And here is the podcast.
[00:01:00] Well, hello, everyone. Welcome back, this is Penny Thomas again, and I’m joined once again with my great friend Beatty Carmichael. Beatty is the CEO of Master Grabber, the creator of Agent Dominator and one of the top marketing experts in the real estate field. Beatty. I’m super excited to be on the call again with you today. What do you have for our listeners?
[00:01:25] Well, I’m super excited again, as always, Penny, because I’m always excited to be on these calls with you and all because I love teaching. And so today we have another great teaching moment. This is going to be one of our radical faith calls. And for those that may be new, joining in on this podcast series we do on our Get Seller’s Calling You podcast, we do two types of podcast. One is real estate marketing and the other is living as a Christian. OK, so today radical faith is the version I’m living as a Christian. So if you don’t have interest in that, you can skip this episode and just join us back on the next one. So you are forewarned that.
[00:02:08] Yeah, that sounds great. I’ve got my hot cup of tea and I’m ready.
[00:02:12] Good. Well, I hope you’re sitting down for a long time. OK, great. So we’ve been just as a real brief review for everyone out there. We’ve been going through a really shallow, superficial topic in Christendom, which is salvation by man’s free will or by God’s choice. And I’m obviously being facetious. That is a very deep, controversial, conflicting topic that has created a lot of angst. And and there’s a story behind this, and I’m going to get to that in just a moment. But we’re on Section three. The subtitle of this is In Christ. So kind of where we’ve started is we started looking at what is free will. And I think a lot of Christians mis misunderstand free will versus free choice. They kind of grouping together. But in our first session, it became kind of clear that free will could not exist by definition because free will is the ability to choose and that without any restraint at all. We talked about kind of that DALGLIESH theory. You know, if you’re walking your dog and you take him off the leash, he has free will, but you have no control. If you put him on the leash, then he has free choice, but you have total control where he goes.
[00:03:38] So does that make sense to you? Remember that? Yes, I do. OK, and then last session we shift the topic and we started to talk about God choosing versus man’s choosing because we kind of use this this moniker, if we want to call it that, of you have to choose Christ for salvation. I mean, you and I both told people, hey, you need to make a decision for Christ, right? Yeah. Yeah, OK. But here’s what’s interesting. And we kind of touched on this last session is nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that we must choose God? I think the closest thing that comes to it is Old Testament. Joshua says, you know, choose this day whom you will serve. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. I think that’s the closest thing the Bible comes to in terms of choosing God. But what’s interesting, when we’re talking about salvation and eternal life, we go to the New Testament, which is where the primary teaching is on that.
[00:04:48] And nowhere does it say that we choose Christ. It says that man has a responsibility to repent and believe, but nowhere does it say that we choose. However, last time we went through at least 19 different passages where it’s saying that God chooses, God chooses God, choose as God chooses. And so we start to have this conundrum.
[00:05:14] Do we choose Chrysler, does Christ choose us? Is it free will or is that freedom of choice but not free will? And we are introduced to another theology last time called the Turkey Sandwich Theology. Do you remember that one?
[00:05:31] Yes. Yes. Remind me how it goes.
[00:05:33] But yeah, I’ll definitely. I’ll do that. So. So here’s this. Here’s a simple conundrum. The conundrum is. Well, I thought man had to choose. I thought man has a responsibility, but if God chooses and it’s not up to man, then I go to conflict. And these are all theologies. I do like the least theology and turkey sandwich theology. There’s simple ways to understand a complicated truth. But as with any little made theology, there is a lot of falsity within there too, but at least points us in the right direction. So here’s the idea of Penni. Most people that did not join us last time, they don’t realize how much you love turkeys that you actually grew up with a pet turkey named Tom-Tom in that, right? Yes. Yeah. For illustration purposes only. Yeah. And you love Tom-Tom. You went to Tom-Tom, slept in your bed, Tom-Tom ate from your dinner plate. You would put a leash on Tom-Tom and walking around the neighborhood and you love Tom-Tom and you would never eat Turkey because you love Tom-Tom so much. Well, you come to me, I’m a doctor and you’re sick. And I say, well, Penny, the only thing that will save you is a turkey sandwich. Oh, no, no, no. Dr. Carmichael, I will not eat that. So how do I my sovereign will make sure that you eat the turkey sandwich so that you shall live.
[00:07:07] And how do you with your human responsibility and complete freedom of choice, not free will, but freedom of choice, choose to eat it. Real simple. I make you shelter in place in your home. I take all the food out and I put one turkey sandwich in the refrigerator. Day after day. You get hungry and you keep going. The refrigerator is only that one turkey sandwich eventually. You’re going your will is going to conform to my will for you, because your nature initially is you’ll never eat a turkey sandwich. That’s the nature of Penni. The nature man is sinful, ungodly will never choose. God will never see God. But God somehow has to change our nature so that we will want to repent and believe in him. This turkey sandwich theology. I change your nature by putting you into a position where you you’re getting hungrier and for your own self-preservation, you eventually choose on your own to eat a turkey sandwich. So now I accomplish my sovereign will. You need to eat that turkey sandwich and you had complete responsibility and freedom of choice based on the parameters I put you in that you actually ate it on your own. Does that make sense?
[00:08:31] Yes. But here’s the key left to free will. You never have free will because free will would say, here’s a turkey sandwich, eat it if you want it or not. And by your nature, you would have refused it. But because I interjected my will and my control over the circumstance, I made it where your will.
[00:08:55] Conformed to my will, and when your will conforms to mine, it’s no longer free, but it’s conforming to a more powerful will.
[00:09:06] This is actually what happened with Jesus the night he was betrayed in the garden of gas and gas. Many when he says, Lord, please remove this Kirkup, but not my will, but your will be done. In essence, he is subjugating his will to his father’s will.
[00:09:28] It’s not free will. He was enslaving his world to his father’s will because he wasn’t enforcing his will and we can go deeper. We’re not, but there’s some technicalities there also. So that kind of brings us up to today. And trying to understand what’s going on. No one does that make sense and no to any questions or clarity there now.
[00:09:54] Ok, I’m excited to get started.
[00:09:57] Ok, so in some e-mail, come, come conversation. You and I have had there’s been this word Armenian ism that’s been pulled up. And for those people who’ve kind of been study the subject, you’ll find that people fall in essentially two camps. I don’t subscribe to either camp. OK, I do. I don’t study them. I really have no clue other than what I’ve been told. But you have a camp called Calvinism and a camp called Armenian ISM. Calvinism is a camp that’s supposed to say it’s all by God’s sovereignty whether you come to Christ or not. And it has nothing of your free will. But they do subscribe to human responsibility. And the typical viewpoint of Armenian ism is that everyone has the full and complete opportunity and ability to come to Christ, and it’s only by their free will whether they do or not. Does that make sense? And from your understanding of Calvinism in Armenian ism, would that pretty? Yeah. OK, so I want to read an excerpt. From a diary entry, that’s really fascinating because Armenian ism was kind of promoted and pushed, by the way, let’s first talk Calvinism. Do you have any idea who kind of push and promoted Calvinism, John Calvin? Yeah. OK, good, good. OK, and then he was one of the big proponents of Armenian ism.
[00:11:40] Do you remember that guy? I don’t know. I don’t know.
[00:11:43] It’s a guy named John Wesley. OK, and so at this time.
[00:11:49] John Wesley and the quote unquote, Calvinists were always at odds, by the way, Wesley is the predecessor of the Methodist Church, very methodical. OK, so so there’s a guy named Charles Simeon and he had a conversation with John Wesley at the end of 1784. We know this because it had this conversation appears in both of their diaries. The conversation appears in Charles’s diary. The date of having a conversation with Charles appears in Wesley’s diary. But here’s the conversation. I just want to read this. So John Charles comes to John and says, Sir, I understand that you’re Aqab and Armenian and I have sometimes been called a Calvinist. And therefore, I suppose that word is Dra. Dagres and start to fight. But before I agree to fight, I’d like to ask you a few questions. And John says, OK, so Charles says, do you feel yourself morally corrupt and so much so that you would never have thought to turning to God if God had not first put it into your heart. And John Wesley says, yes, I do indeed. And Charles continues, And do you believe that there is nothing you can do to present yourself to God on your own merits and that you look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ? John Wesley responds yes, solely through Christ alone.
[00:13:20] So Charles continues, But supposing you were first saved by Christ, are you not somehow or other to continue to save yourself by your own works, of which John Wesley replies, No, I must be saved by Christ from the first to the last. Then, Charles, as if you were first turned to God by the grace of God, are you not in some way or other to keep yourself in righteousness by your own power and by your own decisions? And John restfully replies, No, Charles. So then are you saying then that every hour and every moment you must be upheld by God as much as an infant is in its mother’s arms, at which point John Wesley says yes altogether? Then John asks his final question. And it’s all your hope and grace and mercy of God to preserve you and keep you until you go to heaven. John Wesley replies, Yes, I have no hope but in him. Then Charles finishes by saying, Well, then, sir, with your leave, I’ll put up my dagger. For this is the essence of all I believe in. Rather than searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention, let’s unite on those things where we agree and that Carmichael.
[00:14:35] Yeah, yeah, it is very good.
[00:14:38] And this is kind of where we began the last session. I asked you a few questions. And those questions are the same things that pretty much all Christians believe. And so what I want to kind of underscore with this is I’m not trying to create a divisive wedge. I’m not trying to be debating a topic against someone else’s beliefs. But what I want to do is I want to actually look at the scriptures and say what the scriptures say on this subject matter, because I believe just as what happened with Charles and John Wesley is we’re all on common ground.
[00:15:17] But what happens that sometimes we don’t understand what the scriptures really say and therefore we become contentious because we take offense at it. Like I’ve been having conversation with my oldest son recently. And and I’m saying, well, you know, the scriptures say that God chooses to reveal himself to whomever he chooses. Now, based on last session, would you agree with that statement from scripture?
[00:15:44] Yes, OK, so my son says, so you’re mean that God just condemns some people to hell and not others just out of his own randomness? OK. And so I’m going. No, but what happens is because we have such deeply held beliefs, we immediately shun anything that could be perceived as contrary contradicting those beliefs. And we put up a wall. And as soon as we put up that wall and we hold so firmly to our deeply seated belief, we lose out on what God’s word actually is teaching. And so why I’m going through this is to say, hey, let’s put our beliefs aside and not put them aside, but let’s put the adamancy of those beliefs aside and take a serious look at what the scriptures say. That makes sense.
[00:16:34] Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:16:36] So I want to talk about where these deep rooted beliefs become a problem with me. Real quickly to Matthew, 22.
[00:16:46] Versus right. Yeah.
[00:16:50] Twenty two versus 13, fifteen through twenty one.
[00:16:54] Ok. All right, Matthew. Twenty two are sifting through twenty two or twenty one. Yeah twenty one. OK, all right then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words, and they sent their disciples to him along with the Hirota and same teacher. We know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully and you do not care about anyone’s opinion or you are not swayed by appearances. Tell us then, what do you think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not? But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, Why put me to the test, you hypocrite? Show me the coin for the tax. And they brought him as an area. And Jesus said to them his likeness and inscription is this? And they said Caesar’s. Then they said to him that he said to them, therefore rendered to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God, the things that are God.
[00:17:57] Let me ask a question about this. It always amazed me why they seem to have a problem. Does that make sense? Yeah, so I want to give you the background of this, so this is the Jewish nation, the nation of Israel that was chosen by God. They didn’t have a king because God was their king. So that’s why the role of the high priest was the highest role, because the high priest represented the people and interceded before the people and God himself. So in this environment. When Ron came over and says, you’re now going to be subjected to wrong, they go No. One, we’re only subject to the law, we can’t be subject to man. But he goes even deeper because the denarius, this Roman coin that you used to pay the tax had on one side a bust basically of Caesar, and it had an inscription on it. And that inscription said, Son of the Divine Augustus. So on one side of the coin, it is saying Caesar is the son of God. And then you flip the coin over and on the other side, it shows Caesar in a priestly robe with the words Pontoise Machsom. And Pontoise Machsom means high priest, so now you have this coin that says Son of God and high priest to God. And now we start to see the conundrum that the Jews had, because are we pledging allegiance in our support to a man who claims to be a high priest, son of God and God himself, or are we going to follow God Almighty? Do you see this conflict now becoming a lot stronger?
[00:19:56] Yes, absolutely.
[00:19:58] Ok, and so what’s happened is just like a lot of us, just like my son, absolutely dead set, certain I am right. And once you have your death that certain I am right that strong, your eyes become close.
[00:20:17] You become blind to the real truth of what’s going on. Now, you might be right, but as long as you’re that certain and you bristle when someone says you may be wrong, then that’s when you’re going to be blind. So the Jews thought that there was only one truth. Either you pay taxes to SESAR and you followed Caesar or you follow the Lord and refuted SESAR, they didn’t understand that maybe there was another truth that they completely missed. And what Jesus did is the same thing I’ve been doing on all of these calls. He asked them a question. Jesus asked them to open their eyes and tell me whose inscription and likeness is on the coin. Now, they had seen that inscription and likeness all the time. They said, well, Caesar’s and then Jesus made a simple statement of truth. Well, then render to man what is man and render to God. What is God’s? In other words, he claimed that both of those truths could peacefully coexist, but we have this really harsh dichotomy of truths. But this is what antimony is all about, two truths that appear to be different and in conflict with each other. But there is actually completely at peace with each other. That’s where now I want to start. So, OK, so the question is this conundrum. Does God just randomly choose what’s going on? Is that really fair? And I want to talk about, do you remember the Old Testament laws about tithing or do you remember that Old Testament talks about tithing, right?
[00:22:04] Yes, absolutely.
[00:22:06] Yeah. And we actually did a session. In fact, I think that was our first session, if I recall with you on stewardship about tithing. Yeah. Spent a long time that has been. So do you remember what the title is?
[00:22:23] The 10 percent that’s rate. That’s right.
[00:22:27] It’s the first hint. OK, and who paid tithes?
[00:22:33] And who, as in, are you looking for, a specific person or group of people? Yeah, all of God’s children almost.
[00:22:43] Yeah. So this is you have to get really into the law to understand this. So. So you had the 12 tribes of Israel. One of the tribes was a priestly tribe called Levi. And the other 11 tribes paid a tithe and they gave that ties to the tribe of Levi because the love and tribes were given property and land, but the Levites were only given cities because their entire role was to be priests to God. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. So what we have is a law that says you’re supposed to tithe. Tithing is holy to the Lord, tithe as a tenth percent and you’re to give it to the priest. But the priest does not tithe. They kind of did. But ultimately they technically they gave part of their ties to the high priest, but the high priest never tried. So it’s kind of a filter up. But all of the Levites received tithe. Is that making sense? It is, yeah. OK, so now let’s talk about the tribe of Levi for a moment. The tribe of Levi was the priestly tribe. Do you remember you call that? Yes, I do. Do you recall how they became a priestly tribe? Was it by do they choose to become a priestly tribe or did God choose that they would be the priestly tribe?
[00:24:10] God spoke it. That’s right. Declare decreed that that’s what they would be.
[00:24:15] Ok, and and so here’s the next question.
[00:24:22] Did Levi. The head of the tribe today ties.
[00:24:30] That I don’t recall, right, so let’s turn to Hebrews seven. Versus nine and 10, and we’ll do all these versus now back in ESV. OK.
[00:24:44] He was seven versus nine and 10.
[00:24:47] Oh, OK. OK.
[00:24:55] It says, one might even say that Levi himself, who received tithes, paid tithes through Abraham before he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him. Oh.
[00:25:12] Ok, so now the tribe of Levi, which is really what he’s talking about. Was about 500 years after Abraham. It’s actually the law was given about four hundred thirty four hundred fifty years after Abraham, OK, Levi himself. Yeah, Abraham Isaac. Jacob. And then Levi. So Levi himself is like a great grandson, if I got my quick math right, of Abraham. So this is saying that Levi Page ties because of what?
[00:25:56] Because of who he was to Abraham, yeah, because he was of the seed line of Abraham. Right. Oh, OK, then we have the tribe of Levi are the priestly tribe.
[00:26:13] Everyone to see everyone descended by the seed of Levi was in the priestly tribe, it’s by blind. Do we see that in the natural?
[00:26:24] Yes. OK, now keep in mind that almost everything throughout the Bible is is a kind of a story in a shadow of all the spiritual truths that the Lord is teaching us. OK, and we’ve covered that a number of times, different things. But we see this also here that there’s a sea line of of Levi. That’s the priestly feed line. If another man outside of the tribe of Levi wanted to be a priest, did he have the free will to do it?
[00:27:06] So I take I take someone from the tribe of Benjamin who said, I want to be a priest who he can do, he couldn’t do it. In fact, in the wilderness, there is a group of people that wanted to be priests and they try to, you know, edge their way and say, well, parents know better than we are. And God struck all them down, saying, I will make the choice and not you. OK, so here’s the question. Why?
[00:27:35] Can’t another man outside of the tribe of Levi become a priest? Hmm, that’s a good question. Because he’s not asleep, I see this answer right. His origin determines the outcome. Is God being unfair? By not allowing someone else to be a priest except the tribe of Levi.
[00:28:06] So deep sigh It’s a deep thought.
[00:28:09] Is there ever any injustice with God?
[00:28:14] Now is being unfair and injustice.
[00:28:22] Yes, most people would look at it as an injustice.
[00:28:25] Yeah, so if there’s no injustice with God, then is God being unfair by prohibiting anyone from the seat of Levi to being a priest? No.
[00:28:37] Ok. Reason I ask these questions, because I heard I saw you hesitating because it’s conflicting with what we don’t want to agree with, because at least that’s my assumption, because we have these things that we believe. And my whole my whole challenge here is saying, let’s look at scripture and ask some of these questions because it’s going to get even clearer in just a moment. OK, so as it relates to the to God’s priesthood. Is there any free will as to who can be a priest or is it entirely based on God’s sovereignty, of who he has chosen to be a priest?
[00:29:27] Well, who he’s chosen.
[00:29:30] Yeah, all right, but now let’s look at man’s responsibility. Let’s look at the tribe of Levi. If I were a man of the tribe of Levi back then, did I have any responsibilities I must do in order to serve as a priest?
[00:29:45] Absolutely, yeah. OK, so we have the existence of man’s responsibility. But within the confines of God’s sovereignty of sideline. And that existence of man’s responsibility as I order my freedom to choose. Can choose to perform those responsibilities to serve as a priest, or I can reject those responsibilities. Does that make sense? Yes, I don’t. Now, if I reject those responsibilities, I’m ultimately rejecting God, right? That’s right. OK, but we see this pattern now. Some other questions to. Ask the right questions. OK. I think what happens a lot of times is we ask we don’t know the right questions or we ask one question, is God the same yesterday, today and forever? Yes, there his ways ever change.
[00:30:51] Oh, well, that’s a big question, because while he is the same yesterday, today and forever, a lot of times actually almost all the time, he never does something the same twice.
[00:31:09] Oh, good point. Like Jesus every time he healed it with some other method, right? Yeah. Yeah. OK, so here’s the question. Do his ways change or does he simply reveal things about himself that we haven’t seen yet?
[00:31:25] That’s correct, yes, not change, but he it’ll just be a different way of revealing that part. OK, yeah, I guess so, yeah.
[00:31:35] Great, because that’s a perfect lead in to my next question for you. OK. Does God have priests today?
[00:31:46] Yes, hey.
[00:31:50] Oh, OK, I believe. OK, so now we have a different revelation, but his ways are the same. The Old Testament priesthood is a shadow of New Testament us who are priests to God, right?
[00:32:05] Oh, OK. By whose seed line are we a priest? Because all priests has to come from a sea lion.
[00:32:17] Actually, Adam, if you go all the way back to the Old Testament but Jesus and the New Testament or state of Jesus.
[00:32:25] Ok, so is the priest here today a physical priesthood or spiritual priesthood?
[00:32:33] Ok, so then the C line has to be spiritual and not physical, right?
[00:32:39] So Adam C line would be physical, physical and Christly line would be spiritual, right?
[00:32:46] Yes. OK, we’re actually going to see that in just a moment. So as we shift from the Levitical C line, I want to talk about the Christ C line for a moment.
[00:33:00] And this is where we’re going to start to end up arguing Christ. I am if you’re in Christ, does that mean that you’re a born again?
[00:33:14] Ok, how did you become in Christ?
[00:33:20] I accepted him as my savior, realized that I was a sinner and needed a savior, OK?
[00:33:28] And can I modify your terms to be more biblical? Absolutely, yes. You repented and believed in Jesus as a savior. Yes. OK. All right. Good. Are all believers in Christ.
[00:33:45] Yes, what about nonbelievers are nonbelievers in Christ?
[00:33:52] Oh, no.
[00:33:54] Ok. And when did you become in Christ?
[00:34:02] I see where you’re going with this.
[00:34:04] Yeah, it starts opening up some really major questions, doesn’t it?
[00:34:09] Yes, yeah. From the beginning, because the Bible says the Lord knew me before I even even one of my days came to be on the earth so that he knew you.
[00:34:20] But he didn’t say that you’re in Christ and goes it.
[00:34:25] Ok, so now we have the difference between knowing and being in Christ, we’re going to find that they’re probably pretty much almost identical, though they’re technically different. But generally speaking, for someone to be in Christ, when does that occur?
[00:34:41] And generally speaking, when they accept him as their savior.
[00:34:44] Yeah. Let’s turn to First Corinthians 15, 20 two real quick.
[00:34:53] What the first cut and 15 verse 20 to.
[00:35:00] Says. For as in Adam, all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
[00:35:09] Ok, so do you see the presence of the two sea lines, one line of Adam, which is physical? OK. OK, so we were born in Adam by lineage in the physical, but we were born in Christ by lineage in the spiritual. Does that make sense before it. Yeah. OK, so the question is when that line originated and how do we enter that. So with Adam obviously that C line originated with Adam and we entered that through our parents, you know, from Seth through Noah all the way down through us. But without Christ, we know that Crisi line originates with Christ. Would you agree?
[00:35:51] Ok, well, the spiritual aspect.
[00:35:58] The spiritual aspect. OK, well, we talk about the spiritual, so we’re not we’re not sure yet. So let me hold your answer off for a moment, OK? Rather than saying, would you agree, let me make a statement to Christ Sea Lion originates with Christ. But let me clarify. It’s not Jesus the man, but Christ the Messiah. Because just as we have a triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all three separate in all three one, we almost have a Triune Son. The son of God. The Messiah. And Jesus, they’re all kind of three separate entities. This is why you have access. Jesus of Nazareth and other times he’s called Christ and other times he’s called Christ Jesus. Those are different roles and positions. But yet you also have the son of God who was with God in the beginning and everything was created through him. So it’s really kind of really deep. But with that said, the same line of Christ originates with Christ, but not with Jesus is my is my one on one postulate is what we’re seeing in scripture. So then here’s the big question. When did we enter in Christ? If we are in crisis and in crisis where we have all of our promises of salvation and eternal life, did we enter and Christ before we were born? Did we enter in Christ after we were born, but before repentance? Or did we enter after we were born and after repentance?
[00:37:47] What do you think?
[00:37:55] I you know, I don’t know.
[00:37:57] What did you think? Yeah. Do you see how this could have an impact on.
[00:38:03] How salvation comes about, is it free will if is choices that sovereignty, all these things, because now we’re kind of getting down to it. So let’s rather than me answering what I think, let’s see what God says. Is that OK? OK, because I don’t care what I think and I hope you will never put much credence in what I think. I only want you to put credence in what God says. OK, so let’s turn to Ephesians one versus three and four.
[00:38:34] Ok, that says, blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
[00:38:53] Ok, so from where do we have all of our spiritual blessings?
[00:38:59] Christ, yeah, and those blessings would include God, the father and God, the father, the father who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing.
[00:39:10] So the to have the right good. But there in Christ. Yes. Right. OK, great. And salvation would be included in those spiritual blessings, right. Mm hmm. OK. Did God choose us to be in Christ to receive those blessings.
[00:39:33] When did he choose us in Christ?
[00:39:36] Before the foundation of the world.
[00:39:40] Are you sure what it says, does that then mean that we were in Christ before the foundation of the world?
[00:39:54] I don’t think so. OK, I think it means the invitation to be with Christ was there before the foundation of the world, OK? And we had the choice whether or not to receive that invitation.
[00:40:10] So what word is?
[00:40:14] Could be translated as invitation here. What word are you using as invitation that may be a translator’s choice of words, either one.
[00:40:28] And now I’m just gathering that from what I feel like that verse means.
[00:40:35] Ok. Here’s what he and here’s the challenge, I think. Because I’m going to show you some other stuff to back this up.
[00:40:45] If we start to try to interpret the scripture based on what we think it should mean as opposed to what it says will frequently miss. What it’s actually saying, and we sometimes we do because we can’t comprehend how it could be what is actually saying, but but I want I want to share the grace with all of this. It’s also multidimensional. It blows our mind, there’s no way that we can comprehend God being Father, Son and Holy Spirit. No way that we can comprehend three entities. But there are one entity we can kind of try to grasp that that shadow and try to create some little ideas to help us grasp it. But it’s so far beyond our human reasoning that we just have to accept it as truth, OK?
[00:41:38] And I think that’s what we’re seeing here. And I’m going to back this up in just a moment. God’s word specifically says that he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world and if we accept God’s word is what it says.
[00:42:01] Then now you don’t have to accept it that way yet. OK, but let me just ask if we say let’s accept at face value what it says and see if there are other scriptures that either reject it or support it. But if we accept it at face value, then does that mean. That we were in Christ before we we were born and before we repented of our sins. Yes. OK, let’s go quickly back just in conversation to the vertical priesthood. My son has never been born yet, but I’m a Levite. Is my son already destined for Levitical priesthood before he’s ever born?
[00:42:48] Yes, OK.
[00:42:51] And it’s because he’s out of my seat, which is of Leevi, see? He saw that feed line.
[00:42:58] Right. Correct.
[00:42:59] Ok, so we start to see the presence, I believe, and this is where I’m going to start using the word, I believe, based on what scripture sign of a spiritual sea line that began in Christ before the foundation of the world. Let’s look at Galatians 220. I know this is one of your favorite verses because we talked about it.
[00:43:21] Ok, or at least OK.
[00:43:24] All right, Galatians two, verse 20, says, I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live Christ, who lives in me and the life I now live in the flesh. I live by faith in the son of God who left me and gave himself for me. All right.
[00:43:42] Have you been crucified with Christ? I have.
[00:43:47] Was Christ crucified one time or many times? One time.
[00:43:52] When was he crucified? On La Crosse.
[00:43:56] I don’t know why you’re here. OK? About 2000 years ago, right?
[00:44:00] Yes. Yeah. OK. Not thirty three. Thirty four. Thank you.
[00:44:06] Since you’ve been crucified with Christ. When did your crucifixion occur before you were born or after you repented and believed?
[00:44:24] If I have been crucified with Christ, that means that I was crucified when he was crucified. So that was even before I was born.
[00:44:34] Ah, OK, so now we see.
[00:44:39] Another pattern in scripture that’s reinforcing. That these things may have occurred a long time ago in a spirit realm before they were in the physical realm. This is my concern so far. Are you starting to see this picture of this coming? Yes, sir. OK, OK, so it says that we were in Christ before the foundation of the world. Then we were crucified with Christ, which is still before we’re born. Let’s move again to Ephesians two, five and six.
[00:45:12] Ok, Ephesians two, verse five and six says he predestined us for adoption to himself as son through Christ Jesus according to the decisions to five and six.
[00:45:27] Oh, sorry. I was on one side and said no to both sides. Here we go again. Even when we were dead and our trespasses made us alive together with Christ by grace, you have been saved and raised up with him and seeded us with him and heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
[00:45:47] Great. Are all humans and Christ in ways race with them or only those who repent and believe in him? What do you think? Earns. Let me ask you another way, it says when we’re raised with them and seated with them in heavenly places, is that talking about all of humanity? Or only those who have repented and believe in Jesus.
[00:46:19] Those who have repented because it says you have been saved. Yeah, OK, by grace, you have been saved.
[00:46:25] And when was Jesus raised to sit in heavenly places?
[00:46:30] On the third day after the picture, perfect, so about 2000 years ago, right back where we raised, when Jesus was raised or were we raised after he was raised?
[00:46:43] When he was raised. OK, and was that before we were born?
[00:46:50] Yes, because I’m not 2000 years old.
[00:46:53] That’s right.
[00:46:54] So does this mean that we were somehow already in Christ? Before we were born, before we repented, before we believed and only in Christ, but we went through crucifixion and raised with them and pleaded with them.
[00:47:14] Before we were ever physically here on Earth. You have got this nice.
[00:47:22] Go ahead. Yes, I was going to say yes, because I feel like it’s kind of a it’s just a proof proof in the pudding. The verse that I love is that the Lord’s desires that all would come to know him and that none would perish. So from the very beginning, from the foundation of the world, his invitation for us to be saved was his son. Jesus was the invitation. So from the very beginning, his desire is that all people would come to know who his son is, and only he had the perfect time to send Christ to the earth to be crucified so that then he would be raised. Yes. So then from that point on, it’s just a matter of do we accept that invitation, which is Christ or do we not? But the Lord wants everyone to accept it.
[00:48:13] Yes. Can you accept it if you’re not part of the feed line?
[00:48:26] Well, I think short of this, I think we’re all part of the season because of Genesis, Genesis, God says let us make man in our own image. So all men were created in God’s image. OK.
[00:48:45] That makes sense and yeah, but I would say. He lost the image when he sent. But and I think that’s where the second Adam comes in to restore it. So you have that physical and then you have the spiritual. Let’s look at Romans 16 seven, I want to show you how this conflicts a little bit more, and I want to try to bring what I think is some resolution to this conflict, OK? And so first mean 16 seven. So at least let me say to the conflict this way. Only those who are in Christ. Go to heaven. If you’re born again, you are in Christ, you are only in Christ if you repent and believe in Jesus or so far, am I pretty much in agreement with what you believe? Yes, OK. And yet it says that we were in crisis before the foundation of the world, that we were crucified with them and that we were raised with them, but yet we know that only talking about.
[00:49:59] Those who.
[00:50:01] In the physical, after they’re born, ultimately repent and believe it’s not talking about all of mankind because of all of mankind is in Christ and all of mankind partakes of the promises and all of mankind is saved and has eternal life.
[00:50:22] So while it’s his desire that none should perish, the question is. Are all of mankind in crisis before the foundation of the world? That’s a tougher one. OK, so let’s forget Romans six seven, OK, because we’re going to see another challenge here.
[00:50:47] Ok, I’m going to read it. I don’t know if that’s the right word.
[00:50:50] So where is the Green Andronicus and Journey? Yes.
[00:50:53] Ok, great. Andronicus and Junior, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, they are well known to the apostles. And they were in Christ before me.
[00:51:03] Oh, they were in Christ before me. But yet Paul says that he was crucified with Christ. And that he was in Christ, we’re all in Christ before the foundation of the world. Do you see the problem? Yes.
[00:51:18] Ok, so so if we go back to our episode of Heaven First or Second. The gist of that episode, which is really fascinating, is that things happen in the spirit realm or in the heavenly room as target before they occur in the physical realm, in the natural realm, even every miracle of Jesus, Jesus, I only do the things I see my father doing, which means they occurred first and heavily run before Jesus manifest them in the physical room. Does that make sense? It does, yeah. OK, so here we see that same thing. We see that Paul claims he was in Christ. All of the believers were in Christ before the foundation of the world. But yet he also acknowledges that Andronicus and Genea and some fellow prisoners were in Christ before he was, which means that there is now a timing in the physical when someone becomes in Christ. But the seed line, they were already in Christ long ago, the same as Levi Page ties because he was in Abraham’s loins when Abraham paid. So when Abraham paid it, it’s reckoned to Levi, even though Levi doesn’t occur to many, many generations later.
[00:52:42] That’s what Paul is starting to show us here, that you have this natural and you have the spiritual, the same sea line, it depends on if you’re looking at heavily room, the physical realm. The timing is different. Does that make sense?
[00:52:58] Yeah, I do.
[00:53:00] So it’s not as black and white. There’s a lot of multi dimension, let’s look at one more, actually, a couple more quick wrap up Romans eight one.
[00:53:12] Ok, Romans eight one says there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[00:53:24] Perfect. So if there is therefore now no condemnation, then that means that there was comany condemnation at one point for that person, right?
[00:53:38] Yes, OK. And then something changed.
[00:53:42] Yes. OK.
[00:53:45] I almost fell almost our price, so so he’s talking about Paula talking about men, there’s now therefore now no condemnation only for those who are in Christ Jesus. You’re right. No, because they were in Christ.
[00:54:01] In the spirit line before the foundation of the world, but in the physical world, there in Christ, once they repent and believe in Jesus.
[00:54:12] So there was condemnation. They receive forgiveness of that through their repentance. But that repentance is because they already of the same line of Christ. They’re already in Christ. Before the ages began, it’s real confusing, but does that make sense a little bit?
[00:54:31] Yeah, yeah.
[00:54:32] So it is confusing. It’s real confusing.
[00:54:36] Here’s the bottom line. There are a lot of mysteries we don’t understand, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And this is Florida and whatever. Then, all right. We will start to understand the presence of some of these mysteries.
[00:54:51] They create challenges with some of our thinking things that we believe. Well, this is why it has to be because we start to see some things and we go. Is that really? It is my belief, really, right? So let’s look at two verses and then I’m going to wrap this up, if I can, Timothy second Timothy one nine.
[00:55:13] Ok, so they won nine says who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our work but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began.
[00:55:27] All right. I’m going to take this up and just rephrase it and tell me if I rephrasing is accurate, if I miss anything significant, God saved us and called us because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began work.
[00:55:46] It does OK, does God save and call all men or only those who repent and believe in him?
[00:55:58] Focus on work, save. Or her.
[00:56:02] Does God save all men or only those who repent and believe? And those who repent and believe they are saved, right, and that he saved you and call you for his own purposes. Yes. OK, yes. When did he give you that purpose and grace?
[00:56:24] When I became a believer, when I got to. What is the purpose of this or actually KIG? Well, he gave it to me a long time ago before the ages began, right before the ages began.
[00:56:39] Ok, I didn’t know what it was until I got saved.
[00:56:42] Yeah. So now we’re talking about revelation, not his ways changing, just like we discussed earlier. It’s a rebel revelation occurs later, but his ways are are set. Yeah.
[00:56:56] So if he gave you that purpose in gross for your salvation and calling before the ages began. Where did he give it to you in yourself or in Christ? In Christ, yeah, so here we see again. Pointing back to and Christ before the ages began, only those who are saved and there’s a correlation between if you’re in Christ before the ages begin, you will be saved. We’re going to talk about that the next session scripturally. But there’s a line there’s a sea line, last one revelation, 13, seven and eight.
[00:57:38] Ok, what’s the revelation, 13? Verse seven and eight says.
[00:57:50] Also, it was allowed to make war on the sand and to conquer them, and the authority was given it over. Every tribe and people in language and nations and all who dwell on earth will worship it. Everyone whose name has not been written before, the foundation of the world in the book of the Book of Life of the Lamb who was Slain.
[00:58:13] All right. Is your name in that Lamb’s Book of Life?
[00:58:18] Yes, and does that mean that you’re in crisis and receive salvation if your name is in that book? Yes, and when does this say that your name was written there?
[00:58:30] When you or since the foundation of the world, since the foundation of the world. Is everyone’s name written there?
[00:58:42] No, only one.
[00:58:44] Yeah. And so we say again, you know, having a first or second has a pattern that the spiritual determines the physical.
[00:58:56] A very loose understanding of what we concluded from that study. We start to see all these patterns here, all these passages that say there’s something about us already being in Christ.
[00:59:08] And being crucified and raised with them long before we were ever born, but now all of our promises are not us individually, but given to us in Christ. And so it’s almost like it’s almost like the only way I can I can express this. Like you have body, soul and spirit.
[00:59:27] The spirit is kind of your spiritual container for your soul. OK, in a real sense, it’s almost as if that spirit of ours is then in another container called Christ and it’s in Christ. And as Christ goes down the road, so we go with him, sort of like when I walk my dog with the leash as I take a left and he’s on the leash, he goes left with me, he’s with me. He’s essentially in a very loose kind in Beatty at that point. So this is all real deep stuff. And let me connect some dots and share why this is so important. If we are in Christ before the foundation of the world, if we were chosen to be in Christ by God, if our names were written in the Lamb’s Book of life before the foundation of the world, and we were crucified and raised with them, which happened long before we were born. And what this is saying is we do not and cannot have free will to choose Christ because we were chosen in Christ already. It was our destiny, not our choice. And we are in some mysterious way already tied to Christ and Christ with Christ. And therefore, once we are born, we had this connection and Christ already. It means we will repent and believe in him. And we’re going to see this a lot more clearly in the next session when we start to talk about being his sheep and what this really means. But is this exciting? Is this.
[01:00:57] Yes, it’s very yes. Very dangerous. Very good. And it’s very good. I would like to say the word. So this has been amazing. And I know our listeners are enjoying it as well. And Beatty, as always, thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into studying and opening our eyes, all of us, to see things in scripture that we may have overlooked before. And we look forward to our next our next caller. Do you have any final words for our listeners before we say goodbye for today?
[01:01:30] Hey, listen to this again and take your for your Bible out and actually look at those scriptures and ask yourself if that’s what the scripture says. Don’t take my word for it, but definitely just go ask yourself. And here’s what I really strongly encourage and advise. Stop looking at it in light of your preconceived idea of what you wanted to say. You need to look at it in terms of what it actually says, and if it doesn’t agree with what you believe, then ask yourself, how should you believe? OK, but I think that’s the biggest issue that I had. And that’s why I shared what happened with me at my church. I had preconceived ideas, as my pastors did, but I believe I chose to see the scriptures without blinders on and they came to life.
[01:02:29] So. So I would encourage you to do that after, that’s all.
[01:02:34] Well, awesome. Well, thank you so much, everyone. We look forward to chatting with you next time, and we bless you and hope you have a very productive day.
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